Theater scholar Azadeh Sharifi researches theater and migration, postcolonial theory and decolonial practices in the theater. Using various examples from German theaters, Sharifi demonstrates in her texts that interventions can play a central role in opening up counter-discourses and giving space to marginalized perspectives that would otherwise be categorically excluded.
In her opinion, interventions are often the only way for artists and cultural workers of Color to draw attention to colonial extrapolations and to counter their own narratives.
In her essay "Anti-Racist Interventions as a Necessary "Disturbance" in German Theater“ (1), she uses an intervention that took place in 2014 at the Deutsches Theater Berlin to illustrate why these disturbances are more than necessary.
A conference was held that dealt with the access-barriers to cultural offerings. In lectures and workshops, ideas and concepts were presented on how low-threshold access to so-called high culture could be established. According to the management team, this low-threshold access was primarily addressed to people with a "migration background", people with disabilities and people with low incomes.(2) One of the problems with this conference, however, was that not one speaker was invited who critically dealt with exclusion and marginalisation or who was affected by it. As a reaction to this, the Alliance of Critical Cultural Practitioners (Bündnis Kritische Kulturpraktiker*innen) was formed, which pointed out this problem through an intervention at the conference. In the spirit of "Nothing about us without us“ (3), they drew the attention of the conference audience and the event organizers to the fact that the staffing of the conference is far from being diverse.
Sharifi understands interventions as a necessary form of postcolonial criticism that point to the lack of reflection on one's own position of power and question the prevailing order. Only through interventions can the colonial logic at German cultural institutions be disturbed and decolonized.(4)
Vera Heimisch (VH): Dear Azadeh, you are one of the few scholars who write and research on interventions in the cultural sector, at least according to my previous research in the German-speaking area. For what reasons do you occupy yourself with this topic? And what is your background, in which fields of research do you work?
Azadeh Sharifi (AS): First of all, I am not a classical theatre scholar. I'm a German scholar and I have a doctorate in cultural studies, but always with a reference to the theatre, which has been like a red line, especially since my doctorate (5). It is also very characteristic for scholars of Color in Germany - but also outside of Germany - that we are pinned down to one topic or to topic fields, preferably to topics like migration, racism or religion. And that was exactly the same in my case. It wasn't my decision to deal with topics of theatre and migration, but in the end I was lucky, because I wrote one of the few, first works on it, my dissertation. If you deal with these topics, there are two possibilities: Either by distancing oneself and doing science, by putting on these colonially shaped objective glasses and looking at things as objects from a distance, or you are positioned, involved in it, and can no longer separate yourself from work. A scientific work then also does political work, political work in the sense of a contribution to society. And that is clearly connected to the fact that I don't just do theory, but am very close to practice, very close to contemporary theatre. This has contributed to the fact that I, as a scientist, have not crawled into my ivory tower, but see it as my duty to share my acquired knowledge in certain circles and also to become politically involved.
VH: So you are both a scientist and an activist at the same time?
AS: Yes, I would say that I am not only a theatre scholar, but also an activist, and I am also active in the theatre field as an artistic curator. For me that is connected, I think it together and I can't tell it apart.
I also don't understand science as just reading, writing, researching and raising questions, but I want to share the methodology, formats and approaches with students and marginalized groups. I understand my work in a very political and activist way.
Why I write about these topics myself is because there is no writing published. If you look at the discourses around Blackface (6), for example, or the representation of diversity in cultural institutions and how theatre critics and journalists write about it, it is a very hegemonic representation. There was always a discrepancy in this representation.
But what are the concerns and interests of those who protested against Blackface, for example? There has never been any recognition that this criticism is very much part of this discourse. There is a certain historical and aesthetic history behind it, and that has to be contextualized. In Germany this has not happened yet.
This is a desideratum, and it points to the coloniality of the structures, because a sharpened, critical view of them is missing. And that was also the reason for writing about it. The inner rage, because criticism was rejected again and again, and a precise view and critical examination were always missing.
VH: Yes, the criticism of those who intervene is usually directly delegitimized and fended off. The structural inequality becomes even more apparent in such moments, for example in the intervention in Deutsches Theater. The organizers reacted defamatory to the criticism, among other things, by calling the interveners 'off-theatre makers'.
AS: Yes, I understand interventions in such powerful spaces as one of the few moments in which these orders can be broken.
These are my motives for saying that there is too little research on this, that it has to be worked through and not always only to investigate why it is important to intervene, but also to establish a historical genesis of the whole. It's important to show that it's not just a few troublemakers who go to the theatre and make noise.
One example is the intervention of the Jewish community in Frankfurt, which is the first time that this community has become visible at all. In 1985 they protested against Rainer Werner Fassbinder's production of "Der Müll, die Stadt und der Tod". That was such a serious, powerful moment that you no longer accept this staging, this continuity of anti-Semitic representation or a victimization of people. These people protested, and of course it was not the theatre people who stood there, and that is exactly what I want to deal with. The expertise is not only there when we have read Bertolt Brecht or seen Heiner Müller or Rene Pollesch or know who Rene Pollesch is, but it is also about recognizing that certain colonial racist or anti-Semitic structures, the hegemonic gaze, are present in the theater. For there is no critical questioning, but rather the statement: We are critical in the theatre!
VH: Four years have passed since the publication of your text. Do you feel that since then there have been more interventions, more disturbances and public criticism? What is your perception?
AS: I would say: no. Certain discourses and interventions were important at certain moments, but slowly they have become part of the mainstream discourse. That is always the case, that is the principle of 'divide and rule'. A part is taken up, absorbed, somewhat weakened, and then it continues as before. Of course, there are and have been some interventions, but not those that are serious. But there is, for example, an office for diversity organisation in Berlin, the Diversity Arts Culture (7), but it is also unique in Germany. The struggles will continue, racist practices still exist, the Humboldt Forum still exists. It is a slow process.
But colonialism is finally being addressed, there is an acknowledgement of Germany's colonial past, in today's Germany it is becoming more and more mainstream. For me, 2015 was an important moment, the recognition of the genocide of the Herero and Nama. The questions of restitution and reparations finally came up, and now they are actually being discussed and demanded. I think these are waves, and right now we are on a wave where some things are in turmoil. Because of the murders of African-Americans/Black people, like George Floyd, you just can't resist the whole thing, and it leads to the fact that we have this discussion. But the question is, when does it ebb away again, in which direction does it go back again. I am very sceptical about that.
VH: Yes, what I see very critically is that it is often discussed rather as an alibi. Meaning the postcolonial discourse is very present in the institutions at the moment, there are discursive formats, performances, theatre plays etc. everywhere, but I wonder whether this is a single action, once the main theme is postcolonialism, because everyone is doing it now. Nevertheless, it is of course generally important that people talk about it at all. And that is something that concerns me very much. So how long-term are such projects conceived, and can and should they really change the structures?
But back to the interventions: You write that interventions for the marginalized are an option to be heard, to position themselves. So I ask myself, who can intervene in certain situations, in certain places. It is not possible for all people to intervene in the same way. To what extent is an intervention a possibility of action for everyone?
AS: Exactly, good question. Because the people I have now spoken about, the people who have intervened in the cultural institutions, are of course people who have access to these institutions, who despite everything have networks and academic backgrounds, who have the privilege of being able to enter these spaces. In other words, we are talking about a very specific class, about very specific informed people, about (prospective) academics. But you can take a much closer look, because interventions happen everywhere, exactly in this moment. The resistance of a person who is being deported is an intervention. The demand for one's own rights at a social office is an intervention.
But it is denied and understood as disobedience. And not as productive disobedience, but as disobedience of people who do not know the rules. And that is why there are always these permanent demands for integration. So it's more a question of when an intervention is recognized as such.
A colleague of mine, Sruti Bala, writes great texts, she deals with women in India, for example, how they resist certain rules and norms in the context of work. But you have to look closely and recognize that this is a defiance. This brings us back to Gayatri Spivak. Whose voice is heard at all, who is recognized as a speaking person? That is ,of course, problematic. When we talk about interventions, of course we usually talk about people who have access to social resources. It's hard to say that these are privileges, because I think that in many cases it's people who have fought for access or have access through class. So, going back to someone like me, I believe that my education is only possible because I have a certain cultural capital and in such situations many people do not have this advantage and do not pursue an academic career. When we come back to interventions, my voice is heard, but many colleagues voices not.
VH: During my research I had exactly this insight, that is, that interventions take place everywhere and every day. I understood the concept of intervention very narrowly and only in the course of the last few months have I understood that there are so many actions that are interventions.
But I also ask myself: What comes after the intervention?
You write that spaces of self-empowerment are needed, such as the reopening of the Ballhaus Naunynstraße (8) in Berlin by Shermin Langhoff in 2008. How can you make a lasting change and not just draw attention to inequality for the moment?
AS: Exactly, so what comes after that? Yes, the Ballhaus Naunynstraße was historically essential for a certain moment and has made it possible for many artists who don't have this classical approach to work there, to experiment, to start and develop their artistic career. And I think that's the point. It's a space that lets things happen, there is a self-determination in how you draw yourself. To create something that refuses these attributions from outside, that's definitely important.
But to create spaces requires resources, it requires people who can access these resources, who do not have to do other paid work on the side. That's why an intervention like the one at the Deutsches Theater is symbolic for the time being.
Instead of the question of what comes after that, the question of who is in these institutions would be next. Diversity Arts Culture is currently enforcing, for example, that laws and obligations are introduced for institutions, so that they implement certain discourses not only for one season and then say that from 2020-2021 they have dealt with postcolonial discourses and now they are going back to art, but that there is actually questioning themselves: Who is active in these structures? What topics are being dealt with? What hierarchies exist? Power and resources still lie with those who have always held them, nothing has changed. The question rather is: are they getting away with it now or are they being kept on their toes the whole time? It's no longer enough to engage Black artists once for a production, you have to think about it: who curates the program? How are the salaries structured, and who decides, who sits on the committees?
I think it's a very lengthy process, it will take time.
VH: Are there currently places, cultural institutions, that convince you where you think, there is already a critical questioning going on already?
AS: No, I would actually say from today's perspective, none of these institutions, not a single place, convinces me. But there are some, mainly smaller venues, like Gessnerallee in Zurich, and I'm very curious to see what happens there in the future. Many cultural practitioners are very critical of their structures, and are looking for a decolonial approach, not only to race, but also to questions of power and capitalism. But at German state theatres, for example, I have no hope that anything will change there, the structures are the problem.
VH: Yes, I think so too. The theatre business in the municipal theatre is as hierarchical as a pyramid, with rigid structures, and the process of change is very slow. But above all, I am curious about new positions that are currently being created, for example, that of the city dramaturge at the Theater Dortmund.
AS: Yes, I'm interested in that too. The municipal theatre is a feudal system. The university is also very hierarchical, but my boss has never yelled at me in my life. In the cultural business, things are possible you wouldn’t believe. I don't know how one can work under such conditions.
But when I deal with interventions, I'd rather involve science by now, it has to do with my own position. Right now, although my work is more theatre studies, I'm currently dealing with my own field, the university and the academia, and not just with the question: who has access to it? For example, I currently see initiatives from England by colleagues who ask: Where are the Black colleagues, the colleagues of Color? And in Germany the situation is really serious and dramatically bad. I have the feeling that at the moment we need to influence this field much more, that is, in terms of interventions.
Things have to happen, the academic curriculum has to change, we have to talk about what we teach and what is on the curriculum, what knowledge we teach and what we demand from our students. This also includes the question of who is at the top of the university, what his/her rank is, what is a more stable or more precarious position. These are the things I'm dealing with right now, because I feel I've been looking at the theatre field long enough, but my own discipline, science, is problematic: who has a job as a professor, who only has a teaching position? And who actually only has a precarious position, but is shown on the website? For me all this is connected.
VH: I am also under the impression that there are many structures in science that need to be broken up. Interventions would certainly be a good way to open up new spaces for thinking and new possibilities for action. So there are really many spaces where disruptions are necessary. I am very curious about your further work Azadeh! Thank you very much for the interview.
Notes
1 Sharifi, Azadeh (2018): Antirassistische Interventionen als notwendige »Störung« im deutschen Theater. In: Hill, Marc/ Yildiz, Erol (Hg.): Postmigrantische Visionen. Erfahrungen, Ideen, Reflexionen. Bielefeld: Transcript-Verlag. 207–222
2 Ebd./ Ibid.
3 ‚Nothing about us without us’ is a slogan that makes it clear that no decisions about marginalized groups are made without the people concerned being involved in the process themselves.
4 Vgl. Sharifi, Azadeh (2020): Providing what is missing. Postmigrantisches Theater und Interventionen. In: Deck, Jan / Umathum, Sandra (Hg.): Postdramaturgien. Berlin: Neofelis-Verlag. 46–55 (48f)
5 Sharifi, Azadeh (2011): Theater für alle? Partizipation von Postmigranten am Beispiel der Bühnen der Stadt Köln. Bern: Peter Lang-Verlag.
6 Blackface describes a theatrical practice that goes back to US-American minstrel shows of the 19th century. Blackface is performed by white performers painting their faces and bodies black to represent Black figures in a stereotypical way. This racist practice is still practiced today
(vgl. Sharifi, Azadeh (2020): Providing what is missing. Postmigrantisches Theater und Interventionen. In: Deck, Jan / Umathum, Sandra (Hg.): Postdramaturgien. Berlin: Neofelis-Verlag. 46–55 (46))
7 Berlin Project Office for Diversity Development.
URL: http://www.diversity-arts-culture.berlin (15.07.2020)
8 The Ballhaus Naunynstraße is a Berlin theatre with a focus on postmigrant theatre.
URL: http://ballhausnaunynstrasse.de (20.07.2020)
Azadeh Sharifi is a theatre scholar and associated at the Ludwig-Maximilian-University of Munich. She focuses on theatre and migration, postcolonial theory and decolonial practices in theatre, as well as feminist and intersectional performances. She was a fellow at the International Research College ‚Interweaving Performance Cultures‘ at the FU Berlin. She teaches at the LMU Munich, HBK Braunschweig and University of Vienna. She also works as an activist and curator in the theatre, for example at Augenblick Mal! Festival 2017 and Politik im Freien Theater München 2018, and is a board member of the Future Advisory Board (Fab) of Performance Studies international (PSi).
